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GPU driver crashes on flight loading [not related to Osprey]

By @nenenui
    2022-11-16 08:41:32.953Z

    This is … I guess … a tricky bug. Here I what I had today after I upgraded to 1.0.1

    • I tried to fly in Niger … so I picked DRRN … Ramp 1
    • Click "Fly" … it starts loading
    • … and MSFS crashes with the following alert

    I tried loading v1.0.1 at five different "DRR*" Niger airports … and all crashed this way.
    I tried "DRRN … Ramp 1" 3 times … all crashed

    I then tried "DRRN … Ramp 1" with the FA-18, Bell 407 and King Air … they all worked

    I tried the Osprey 1.0.1 again … and it crashed.

    So why is this "tricky"? … because this happened to me with the v1.0 as well (e.g. at LPPI … but less frequently) … and the same thing happened with other aircraft in the past.

    I provided some information in a related thread in the MSFS forum …

    https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/airports-causing-ctd/391630

    I am using an AMD Vega II (16 GB) … and DX12beta … and it feels to me like this is a MSFS race condition related to loading assets into the GPU.

    With the v.1.0 Osprey crashes at LPPI have shown that I could fly from there in … hmm … 50% of all attempts. And so it is not a "hard" problem of the Osprey … neither specific to 1.0.1 … but both seems to trigger some MSFS (or AMD driver?) bug … and this is now more frequent with 1.0.1 (maybe this is related to textures?)

    I will try so more "fly" tests at different airports … maybe I can find some pattern.

    • 11 replies
    1. In reply tonenenui:

      I haven't experienced any crashes at all with the Osprey (NVIDIA RTX3080). These are definitely very hard to replicate and to point out what the issue may be.

      I would suggest you try different simulator settings - antialiasing and DX11 vs DX12 may be playing a role here. It may also be just a hardware issue (instability due to clocking/voltage). The fact that the issue has not been reported before likely points to a config/driver/hardware issue.

      1. In reply tonenenui:
        @nenenui
          2022-11-16 10:47:07.301Z

          One more observation … while using the v1.0.1 … I selected the bundled "Blank" … while my custom (old v1.0) "Nene-nui" livery was still part of the community folder.

          Now … both showed up correctly in "My Hangar"

          but (??) … now even the bundled "Blank" triggered that "load to Fly" phase "GPU crash" at DRRN.

          This I find more confusing, as I would suspect that since my "Nene-nui" was no longer selected it should not play any role in the game setup phase. But then … there might be some strange code blocks in MSFS. But then … removing my custom "Nene-nui" allowed to load "Blank" as desired.

          1. Progress
          2. @nenenui
              2022-11-16 09:02:42.770Z

              I switched back to the v1.0 version (which crash in the same way at LPPI frequently) … and this time it worked at DRRN.

              I then switched back to the v1.0.1 version … and this time it worked too at DRRN … (hmm … I did change the livery this time … not sure what impact that has)

              1. Miltech Simulations @MiltechSimulations
                  2022-11-16 09:11:51.514Zreplies tonenenui:

                  Does DX11 vs DX12 make any difference?

                  The aircraft model wasn't changed, and textures are just regular DDS, texture resolution hasn't been changed.

                  The only thing I can think of that is different from V1.0 and computed by the GPU is VTOL physics. But again, fully stable on all beta systems (all Nvidia based)

                  1. @nenenui
                      2022-11-16 09:14:13.891Z

                      Ok … I think I can reproduce the issue … and it is related to my custom (v1.0?) livery which I did derive from the "blank" version that I had found on flightsim.to.

                      v1.0.1 comes with a bundled "blank" livery now … but this should not be related to a name clash, because I did change the name of my livery.
                      The interesting aspect is that when I go to the "My Hangar" section … the Osprey 3D model comes up perfectly fine with my custom livery.

                      Only when I load into a flight … then it crashes on load … and it seems 100% reproducible.

                      I have no idea if developers can "bug" the sim "asset load phase" in more detail … but I can provide my livery if that might help to debug the issue … as it might affect the usage of other custom liveries (in the future)

                      1. @nenenui
                          2022-11-16 09:18:24.930Z

                          … and just one more "idea" …

                          • perhaps … MSFS is loading the livery … before the Osprey aircraft is completely loaded (as it might be "stuck" in some WASM init phase)
                            • that would be the "race condition"
                            • and so it "crashes" because it is referencing 3D objects … which are still stuck in some other MSFS pipeline

                          It somehow would explain the "My hangar" anomaly

                          • "My hanger" maybe … first loads the 3D object
                          • the the livery data
                          • and it does not even try to compile any WASM (autopilot or flight physics) aspects of the aircraft.
                          1. Miltech Simulations @MiltechSimulations
                              2022-11-16 09:22:39.219Zreplies tonenenui:

                              Interesting. Can you please provide the livery via email to check if I can reproduce?

                              A naming change may just be enough. No idea what's the logic behind loading on the hangar vs the sim.

                              1. @nenenui
                                  2022-11-16 10:18:13.829Zreplies toMiltechSimulations:

                                  OK … I will send it to … contact@miltechsimulations.com

                                  Correct?

                                  1. @nenenui
                                      2022-11-16 10:41:03.953Zreplies toMiltechSimulations:

                                      Since it is 38 MB I just uploaded it to our webserver …

                                      https://www.objectfarm.org/Public/Misc/MV-22B-Nene-nui-v20221109.zip

                                      I basically reused the flightsim.to "Blank" and only changed the folder names and some values in the CFG files (should be easy to diff). I did not yet start changing the texture images.

                                      Please let me know once you have downloaded it … so that I can remove it again.

                                      1. @nenenui
                                          2022-11-16 12:06:32.767Zreplies toMiltechSimulations:

                                          I will make some tests (tomorrow) with DX11 vs DX12

                                          (and just to reiterate … I am convinced that the "real bug" is part of the MSFS code … but only with the Osprey am I now able to reliably trigger it)

                                          1. @nenenui
                                              2022-11-16 19:00:24.713Zreplies tonenenui:

                                              Some more background after some additional tests.

                                              • it only seems to happen in DX12beta mode
                                                • … and I use 4K * 70% renderscale … TAA … with Vsync and a 30 FPS limit
                                                • no overclocking of my AMD Vega II GPU
                                                  • … and the GPU runs at low average power (because the system is Main-Thread limited)
                                                    • so the PC's PSU is only running at 50% of its peak output
                                              • it never happens in "My Hanger" mode
                                              • with the custom "Nene-nui" it happens 80-90% of my tests (around 10 so far)
                                              • with bundled liveries it happens 10-20% of the time … if the "Nene-nui" livery is installed
                                              • it also does happen with other aircraft / airports
                                                • e.g. the B407 at LPPI … or the A310 … both with no add-ons

                                              So it confirms to me that …

                                              • it is a race condition … because it is not 100% reproducible
                                              • the primary cause is not in the Osprey
                                                • even when it seems very easy to trigger with my present Osprey setup
                                              1. @MiltechSimulations closed this topic 2022-11-16 19:44:31.790Z.